[21:07] magic: Hi and welcome to celebrates undernet's 10th birthday
[21:07] magic: you can follow this event by setting yourself +w /mode yournick +w and follow this in your wallops.
[21:08] magic: we have several different sections in todays event, history, admins, coder-com, channel service, routing-com and user-com
[21:08] magic: after each section you will be able to ask questions
[21:09] magic: we will start with the undernet history, welcome BrightEye :o)
[21:09] BrightEye: Hi everyone.. this is a summary of the Undernet history compiled by talking to oldtimers and reading Undernet mailing lists
[21:09] BrightEye: In December of 1992, Undernet was born when Wildthang linked his US-based testnet (consisting of norman*, Uworld, and a couple of other servers) to a small network run by WHIZZARD (halifax*) and _dl (paris*). They had all been disillusioned with EFnet for some time, and wanted to form a network with better organization that would be more fun for users.
[21:10] BrightEye: In 1993, several things were already in place that would set Undernet apart. From the beginning, there was a server called "underworld" that let opers change modes on channels, and it later had a client bot running on it called Uworld. Later the server was renamed to Uworld as well.
[21:10] BrightEye: This service let opers help users with channel problems, which was impossible on EFnet. Also, in June of that year, Run developed the TimeStamp patch. This patch let servers set timestamps when a channel was created, and when a user signed on, and it helped solve anarchy caused by nick collisions and channel rejoins after netslits.
[21:11] BrightEye: During 1993, and really up until the end of 1994, there was no routing committee, so servers tended to come and go at will, without much accounting. There were so many servers during those first 2 years that it was impossible for me to keep track of them all. The ones that would stay around a while were norman*, which was renamed norman-r* and was linked until 1998
[21:12] BrightEye: caen*, which was linked by dp almost at the beginning and was linked until 2002, washington*, which was linked at AOL in 1994 and is still linked today, and montreal*, which was linked at the end of 1993 and is also still linked today.
[21:12] BrightEye: In 1994, Undernet worked to become more organized and efficient. Several committees were formed to deal with specific issues. Coder-com was formed in October after Undernet's ircu development split from EFnet's ircd development. Routing-com was formed to help define good routing plans for leaf and hub servers and develop criteria for linking new servers.
[21:13] BrightEye: User-com was formed to help keep users informed and happy. It was associated with pr-com, for handling Undernet public relations, and doco-com, for developing documentation.
[21:13] BrightEye: In 1995, Undernet worked to extend its services to users. Undernet had 1000 concurrent users for the first time at the beginning of the year. In February, Uworld2 was linked as a backup to Uworld, and also Undernet became the first IRC network to have a channel service.
[21:13] BrightEye: The channel service bot X was developed by SeKs and the channel service committee CService was started by Super to help users have control over channels without using their own bots. A second channel service bot, W, was added in July.
[21:14] BrightEye: In 1996, Undernet had to deal with some growing pains. The Australian servers wollongong* and brisbane* delinked in March due to the bandwidth becoming unmanageable. They formed the oz.org IRC network. The routing committees (there was one for North America and one for Europe by this time) faced some organizational problems,
[21:14] BrightEye: and the server admins got tired of the noise level on the wastelanders mailing list, so they started a separate list for admins. This was also plagued with organizational problems, and many admins realized that different structure was required for Undernet to maintain control over itself.
[21:15] BrightEye: In 1997, Undernet sorted through its problems and emerged even stronger. The admins list was reorganized in January with voting procedures, and the current setup where each server gets one vote but can have two representatives on the mailing list. The first RFD was on globally banning *.uu.net. The first CFV (0004) was to dissolve CService, and it didn't pass.
[21:15] BrightEye: In July, after most of the North American r-com members resigned in disgust over a failed attempt to review the link of all servers, the committee was reorganized with new members and a new secretary. ircu 2.10, which had several major upgrades, especially in the way servers connected to each other, was released in July after six months of beta-testing.
[21:15] BrightEye: In November, EUworld, written by nextie, linked as a backup and alternative to Uworld. It was the first service that was fully compliant with the new server version.
[21:16] BrightEye: In 1998, Wildthang linked the first RCSD server, which was proprietary and had both telnet and web interfaces in addition to a traditional IRC interface, and it was named services1. In October he proposed the Services Management Team (SMT), a group of opers and admins that would test Uworld3 and get it ready for linking to Undernet. Many servers came and went that year.
[21:16] BrightEye: In 1999, Undernet had to withstand several crises that threatened to break the net apart (and would have to do so continually up to the present). The first of these was in April when poptix, who was long considered a troublemaker, got an o:line. Many admins thought this was a mistake, and opers got into fights with each other on the issue.
[21:16] BrightEye: Buff, the admin-sec, resigned, typos replaced him, and very soon after he also resigned, and several very bad events lead to poptix's removal and even G:line. The second crisis was a few months later in July when admins couldn't agree on whether more RCSD servers should be linked. It came to a head one night when BigTim, the admin of stlouis* and stlouis-r*, was told not to link a planned RCSD, and he delinked all of his servers.
[21:17] BrightEye: The arguments about RCSD were mostly ideological, with some admins who thought all Undernet servers and services should be open source, and others who thought the web interface could have banners to generate money. The third crisis was when Run resigned from coder-com (it involved the RCSD debate, among others) and Undernet had to find coders to step into his shoes.
[21:17] BrightEye: A new coder-com policy was drawn up and coders elected, and although this structure was never followed very closely, everyone worked together to keep ircu development going.
[21:17] BrightEye: In 2000, there were more crises to deal with. Hub servers were DoS attacked constantly, and several hub admins refused to stay linked if a way was not found to keep their IP addresses hidden. Coders worked hard on this problem the first few months of the year to find a solution, and they eventually did. Because of other servers delinking, X, W, and Uworld all ended up being hosted at the same site, and that was bad because they could a
[21:18] BrightEye: all be taken out just by attacking that server. A joint committee between coder-com and CService was created to start working on a next-generation channel service bot that would be less susceptible to attacks and P10 compatible.
[21:18] BrightEye: Undernet experimented with proxy scanners during 2000, to help keep insecure proxies that were used for abuse off the network.
[21:18] BrightEye: In 2001, Undernet almost went under, but managed to survive, mostly through hard work and stubborn tenacity. Giant DoS attacks against all the servers in January forced 11 servers to delink. Fortunately other servers linked to replace them. The site that hosted X, W, and Uworld delinked its servers,
[21:19] BrightEye: so Undernet had only Euworld, which worked badly, as a service for its users available, until the new X was linked in March, and Uworld relinked in May. To help combat the massive attacks, the admins passed CFV-0165 which required hiding just about all non-essential server information from users.
[21:19] BrightEye: In May, coder-com released ircu2.10.10.pl14 which hid everything required by the CFV, and it probably did help curb some of the attacks.
[21:19] BrightEye: 2002 was a fairly quiet year for Undernet. Wildthang's Uworld was replaced by an open source alternative in May. ircu 2.10.11 was released in September after long delays caused by hard-to-find bugs, and it provided many new features, including the +x user mode, which allowed users to hide their real hosts.
[21:20] BrightEye: Some new servers came, and some old ones left, including brussels*, which was the last RCSD server, which delinked in August. And so far, 2003 has been a good year for Undernet.
[21:20] BrightEye: There is a more complete Undernet history document at www.user-com.undernet.org/documents/uhistory.txt if you want to see it.
[21:20] BrightEye: Thanks :)
[21:21] magic: Thank you BrightEye, now we will do some questions from the users
[21:22] magic: To ask a question you don't msg me, but you /msg #askme we will past the question and try to answer as many we can.
[21:24] cArLiLLoS: What is "RCSD", can you expand upon that?
[21:24] BrightEye: RCSD was "Realtime Chat Server Daemon", a proprietary IRC server written by Wildthang and SeKs, which had IRC, telnet, and WWW interfaces that could be used on the same server.
[21:24] BrightEye: It was also the base server required for Uworld3.
[21:27] cArLiLLoS: What were your intentions when you created the Undernet ? Did you ever think your adventurous project was going to become what is today: one of the largest and best IRC networks ?
[21:28] BrightEye: Well I wasn't a founding admin, but I'm pretty sure they had no idea it would ever be such a large network as it is today.
[21:29] magic: Ok, thats the history of undernet :)
[21:29] magic: We will now meet some old admins, some of them was here 10 years ago when it all started.
[21:29] magic: and some of them are really fresh :)
[21:31] _dl: re "What were your intentions when you created the Undernet ? Did you ever think your adventurous project was going to become what is today"
[21:32] DinTx: If it were not for the servers and the people who donate both the equipment and the bandwidth we would not be here today
[21:32] _dl: For me, ten years ago, there was 2 drivers: 1 to do a better Irc network, but 2, to be honnest
[21:33] _dl: because I could not get linked on the then 'real' network
[21:34] Mmmm2: hello everyone...welcome to the admins section of the agenda
[21:34] _dl: everybody: be nice and stop privmsg me, I can't answer 300 messages at the time (and the flood message aren't helping either, please be nice)
[21:34] Mmmm2: http://www.undernet.org/agenda.txt
[21:35] Mmmm2: that is the general agenda of this live event...for a history of the undernet see
[21:35] Mmmm2: http://www.undernet.org/uhistory.txt
[21:36] Mmmm2: I'd like to introduce you to some of the early admins..you've already heard _dl...he was one of the Undernet founders
[21:36] Mmmm2: he set up the first servers in France...
[21:37] Mmmm2: Wildthang, and myself..we used to run the first server in the US...
[21:37] Mmmm2: and WHIZZARD used to run the first server in Canada...
[21:37] Mmmm2: _dl would you like to maybe tell the users why you started irc?
[21:38] _dl: Mmm- again ?
[21:39] Addervark: roll on the usual suspects DoSing everything in sight for their own jollies.
[21:39] _dl: I started to use irc to chat with friends, like everybody ?
[21:40] Macro: we are experiencing some minor problems, please hang tight when your friendly wastelander sorts things out ;-)
[21:41] nil: Could people please NOT msg any of the admins who are talking?
[21:41] _dl: looks like things haven't changed that much ;-) [splits, lags,...] since 1994 :-)
[21:41] Macro: dl - except that now, there are so many more users than before
[21:42] _dl: yes, the scaling is impressive. thanks to Run in part I'm sure :-) Run, your turn
[21:43] nil: a few of us remember when undernet had less than 100 users and /list only shows about 10 or so channels
[21:43] Macro: actually, I remember we had an opermeeting - and Barron shouts out: 117 users!!!!
[21:44] Run: Woah, my turn!
[21:45] dp_: undernet: it was 30 servers and 100 users at the beginning :)
[21:46] Run: Good morning, afternoon and evening everyone! (Hi mom, dad)
[21:46] nil: users: please do not msg any ofus. We can't invite you to #liveevents. I think questions is in #askme. check out the topic of liveevents
[21:46] Run: Although a lot of people seem to know me on IRC usually, facing 1000+ people on this channel forces me to assume that they didn't come all especially for me...
[21:46] Run: Those who didn't come for me raise your hand.
[21:46] Run: Seriously, since most people don't know me - let me introduce myself a bit.
[21:46] Run: For example, this very day I picked up the following conversation about me on the admins channel:
[21:46] Run: [13:08] His age was a matter of discussion/confusion/ a few times yes ;-)
[21:46] Run: [13:10] Yeah, still is, apparently.[...] [13:11] I put him between 13 and 51 ;-)
[21:46] Run: This age interval is correct.
[21:47] Run: Having put that mistery out of the way, let me continue with a few one-liners to introduce myself:
[21:47] Run: Electronics, mathematics, physics, programming.
[21:47] Run: Chatting, movies, karate, aikido, music, nature, boys, chess.
[21:47] Run: a/s/l/iq/h/w/sofi-nr: 51-13,male,Amsterdam,165,1.76m,62kg,none-of-your-business
[21:47] Run: IRC-bot, -daemon, -protocol, C++ debugging support library (http://libcwd.sf.net/), Elliptic Curve Cryptography (http://libecc.sf.net/).
[21:48] Run: You can already read about the IRC-bot and stuff in another interview of me (from my homepage, http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/).
[21:48] Run: The reason I am invited here today, is because I have spent about 7 years of my life on improving the server-server IRC protocol.
[21:49] Run: Improvements that have led to making IRC a large, boring place without any ways to exploit neat protocol flaws in order to take over channels, except social engineering of course - and cracking hosts of others from which automatic authentication can be used.
[21:49] Run: As a result, all channels became opless (before, the channel-op status was more like a boiling soup of hacks and abusive results). And undernet was forced to create X/W in order allow the ordinairy luser to keep their ops.
[21:50] Run: Technical intermezzo:
[21:50] Run: The word 'luser' comes from the source code, were there was a variable called 'luser' - meaning 'local user'.
[21:50] Run: A local user was not only connected directly to 'this' server (local), but it was also a client - as opposed to a connection that is another server.
[21:50] Run: For some reason, the word luser was then adopted to only refer to clients that didn't have an O:line, while all users including IRC Operators would be refered to as "users".
[21:50] Run: I have no clue what was the reasoning behind that ;p
[21:51] Run: The changes that I made are among others, adding a creation time to channels and nicknames, introduction of the BURST message (which synchronizes two servers when they reconnect after a net.break).
[21:51] _dl: right :-)
[21:51] Run: Introduction of numeric nicks in the server-server protocol. Connect flood protection (can't connect from the same IP# anywhere to the net faster than once every 2 minutes (if the admins had not screwed with the configuration anyways)),
[21:52] Run: nick change flood protection (can't change nick faster than...etc), SPAM flood protection (can't address more than about 20 different 'targets' (nicks or channels) and after that a new target only once every 2 minutes) channel flood protection (a channel ban stops all kind of messages to a channel, including nick changes or channel messages), private msg flood protection (the SILENCE command (many people STILL don't know that it exists?!), s
[21:52] Run: tops all kinds of private flooding at the server of the attacker).
[21:53] Run: [...] In other words... it is because of me that you are now nuked, smurfed and d-dossed instead: they can't attack you anymore via the IRC protocol.
[21:53] Run: Ahem, let me elaborate a little more about the time that I was still actively coding for undernet.
[21:54] Run: Here is an old email that I wrote in 1994. It is quite big, but it describes
[21:54] Run: more precisely the sphere of those times then I could anno 2003.
[21:54] Run: [Note 'squit' == remove a server from the network (Server QUIT)].
[21:54] Run: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 1994 15:49:22 +0200
[21:54] Run: Subject: Version .U5
[21:54] Run: [...]
[21:54] Run: - I started a marathon on Sunday and worked four days around the clock
[21:54] Run: to get things done
[21:54] Run: [...]
[21:54] Run: - Once everything worked (I thought), I upgraded Delft* and immedeately saw that there was a serious bug:
[21:54] Run: Delft* killed all users that changed nick.
[21:54] Run: It killed about 6 or so before I /DIE-d it. I fixed this problem and restarted Delft.
[21:55] Run: Unfortunately, on my Linux box at home, I managed to start an old executable from *before* the last patch
[21:55] Run: and that test server (connected via my 28k8 modem) killed a few more...
[21:55] Run: It was squitted by other Opers now, but I thought I /DIE-d it and removed the binary from disk.
[21:55] Run: But since it was still running, it connected *again* and killed some more :/
[21:55] Run: Awefull, but all just ONE typo I had made.
[21:55] Run:
[21:55] Run: - President offered to run the version of Delft too, and I DCCed him the patch.
[21:55] Run:
[21:55] Run: - More HACK floods, from Ljubjana occured.
[21:55] Run: Cym found out that Ljubjana's /VERSION was 2.8.20.U5alpha and (of course) blamed the 'alpha' for it!
[21:55] Run: In real, Ljubjana wasn't running U5 at all but plain 2.8.20 :/
[21:55] Run:
[21:55] Run: - Now people really got irritated about 'me' using the main net as "test" environment :(
[21:55] Run: Because Ljubjana* caused a HACK flood *every* MODE change from it (plain 2.8.20 doesn't send a TimeStamp!),
[21:56] Run: thus also *every time* someone from Ljubjana created a new channel...
[21:56] Run: [...]
[21:56] Run: Note that a HACK flood was thousands of wallops, flooding EVERYone :)
[21:56] Run: So far the mail. As you see it was a lot of fun in that time: servers connected via 28k8 modems that killed people by accident... a whole different network heheh.
[21:56] Run: I think that the 10 minutes I got here to cover 7 years of coding is not really enough :). If people are interested in more technical details of changes that have been made; the old web site still exists: click on the 'release notes' on this site: http://ircu.sourceforge.net/.
[21:57] Run: ...
[21:57] Run: Say, if any of you wants to meet me in real life :)
[21:57] Run: Go to my home page, look at the picture -
[21:57] Run: then come to Amsterdam, to the only chess-cafe there (near the Leidseplein),
[21:57] Run: find me,
[21:57] Run: challenge me to play chess,
[21:57] Run: take white
[21:57] Run: and start with: 1. g4.
[21:57] Run: If then you still win, then I'll take you home and give you a private tour on my computer and all the secret admin channels
[21:57] Run: and a few wallops at your choice. Of course you can spend the night at my house then.
[21:57] Run: If you are cute then don't worry too much about being able to play chess very well of course, heheh ;)
[21:58] Run: Ok, that concludes my talk :). *wave* *bow* *smile* *goes away, curtains close* *comes back again, waves some more* *goes away again* *comes back again* etc.
[21:58] _dl: Run- when you're done (soon ;-) hint hint) , talk to me :-)
[22:00] SeKs: darn.. I thought I'd missed it
[22:01] magic: Thank you run, how about some qiestions from our users, i know some of you has been sending us questions for the last 20min now.
[22:01] Run: Ok, where do I see the questions? :)
[22:01] magic: why the name 'undernet'?
[22:01] _dl: underground network
[22:02] Kev: WildThang is a dungeons-and-dragons fan. That probably had something to do with it.
[22:02] _dl: why underground= as opposed to the "real" (!) network , up there
[22:03] magic: As network administrators you are all tasked with what most would consider a thankless and grueling job. What makes it all worthwhile? Why do you keep coming back, day in and day out?
[22:04] meri`afk: Insanity runs in the family?..
[22:04] Kev: pretty much.
[22:04] LexCyber: chicks, it is chicks for me - seriously...
[22:04] Kev: I never thought of it before, but that would explain me ;)
[22:04] Pyber: I believe the answer to that question has something to do with masocism, the enjoyment of pain, and probably being dropped as children...
[22:04] magic: How old were the initial admins (founders) when they started this?
[22:04] Sengaia: between 13 and 51 :)
[22:05] `Leland`: one or two a bit older though :)
[22:05] magic: how did you do the "advertising" of undernet, as you got it so big?
[22:06] Macro: word of mouth? and the fact that we were indeed different
[22:06] Kev: the technical capabilities that Run and others added to the server was a large portion of that
[22:06] Sengaia: Undernet doesn't do any advertising, it is not a business...the only advertising is word of mouth
[22:06] Pyber: Mostly word of mouth I would think. The AOL-style CDs were never mailed I believe.. :)
[22:06] _dl: telnet helped getting on users without clients
[22:06] Kev: well, we do have a web page.
[22:06] magic: What were the standard hardware and bandwidth specifications to run and/or link a server to the Undernet when this started ?
[22:07] dp_: telnet client has been installed very early
[22:07] Kev: there weren't really any, I believe.
[22:07] Macro: well, I started a server on a 19.2kbps link in 1994...
[22:09] Macro: it seems it's my go on a little note about the committee structure
[22:10] Macro: First mention of a committee was in march 93, by Tonto - in regards to 3 or 4 servers sudden leave.
[22:10] Macro: Tonto backs down however, and I think it's because the first wastelanders have this idea of the great network of friends :-)
[22:10] Macro: In september 93, Twilight One states that:
[22:10] hop: we were disaffected college students.
[22:11] Macro: It seems the current way and form of organization is rapidly finding its
[22:11] Macro: way to chaos. Well, we need some sort of committee of elected officials to
[22:11] Macro: maintain the undernet.
[22:11] Macro: Again, it is voiced against: We can all work things out together, like we always have.
[22:11] Run: One of the reasons that Undernet was the first network (after MANY tried!) that succeeded in becoming big was thanks to the use a script that automatically installed a client for users on their (UNIX) account. In that time, everyone was still student on universities - and everyone use UNIX. Not many knew how to install an IRC client. The script would point them by default to undernet.
[22:13] Macro: The wastelanders could probably work most things out together...with usercount at about 4-500
[22:13] Macro: During october 1994, committee discussions are revived. I never knew about the previous discussions, and that was probably good.
[22:13] Macro: (I was fresh ;-)
[22:13] FootPrint: In 95, I think the form said that we had to have a T1 or better
[22:14] Macro: Most of the actual work in regards to drafts were done by Tiktok - and a healty "ironing out" process on the wastelanders lists
[22:14] Macro: October 12 1994, Five committees are approved; User, Server/routing, Coders, PR/recruitment, Documentation and also VMS :-)
[22:15] Macro: I never kne what happened to the VMS committee... but some of the committees were merged into one a couple of years later
[22:15] nil: I think we tried to make undernet a friendly place to be in.
[22:16] Macro: I think the committee structure has meant something to all the users of the Undernet
[22:16] Macro: I just hope it have been mostly good
[22:17] Macro: I have no personalia to broadcast, so I just say happy anniversary, and thanks for your attention.
[22:17] Macro: :)
[22:17] DinTn: Thank you Macro
[22:18] DinTn: I can't imagine what the early years were like with servers being linked/delinked with just a note to wastelanders..oh btw..I gave so and so c/n likes
[22:18] _dl: one piece of history I remember is that I thought that Undernet wasn't a serious name and it would prevent growth in the mid/long temr... looks like I was very wrong :-)
[22:18] Mmmm: those were very crazy times...we didn't know if the net would survive...
[22:18] Kev: oh, it was a mess. I remember a server that ran for several weeks, but the admin had just vanished like a wiff of smoke
[22:18] Mmmm: there were a lot of personality clashes...server delinks...etc...the committee structure helped a lot
[22:19] Alix: hi, thank you _dl
[22:19] DinTn: We have survived. Thanks to all the admins who keep this place going
[22:20] magic: Thanks all for your stories.
[22:20] nil: remember the theme song for "Cheers" with the line "Where everyone knows your name". at the time of under 100 users you really didn't need too many committees
[22:21] magic: thanks for all stories
[22:21] magic: we will set the channel -i for a few minutes for those who wich to rejoin
[22:23] magic: still waiting for the last users to rejoin :)
[22:23] magic: and then we will fo with the channel service commitee
[22:24] magic: ok, lets continue the event witht he channel service commitee :o)
[22:24] BrightEye: everyone probably figured out +w works better
[22:24] magic: sorry, my misstake, coder-com is first :-)
[22:27] magic: ok, kev is here now :)
[22:27] Kev: *bow*
[22:27] magic: lets start with coder-com :)
[22:28] Kev: during the early history of coder-com, Run *was* coder-com, in essence.
[22:28] Kev: eventually, we began to form a formal structure
[22:29] Kev: coder-com, as it exists today, is a loose collection of coders, senior coders, a maintainer (actually, 2 at the moment), and a secretary.
[22:31] Kev: over the past 10 years or so, the Undernet Coder Committee as thoroughly rototilled the server
[22:31] Kev: we started off with the main IRC network's server code
[22:31] Kev: Run has already mentioned many of the things that were done to it--addition of useful commands such as /SILENCE, addition of timestamping to prevent channel hacks, etc.
[22:32] Kev: When Run retired from the Coder Committee, new maintainers took over the maintainance of the code base.
[22:33] Kev: Since then, the code has been made almost unrecognizably better by the efforts of many coders
[22:33] Kev: Improvements to the protocol were made, both during Run's tenure and later on.
[22:33] Kev: additionally, various code was rewritten, rewritten, and rewritten again to make it easier to understand and find bugs.
[22:34] Kev: most of our efforts have been toward making the server more efficient.
[22:34] Kev: those "in the know" realize that the IRC protocol, as specified by RFC 1459, is not very scalable.
[22:35] Kev: Changes to the protocol introduced by the Undernet Coder Committee have greatly enhanced the scalability of the server.
[22:35] Kev: though it is still not as scalable as we would like, it gives us breathing room for more enhancements.
[22:35] Kev: other changes were made to enhance the efficiency of the code itself.
[22:36] Kev: because of the way ircd was developed, it looks more like something that grew rather than something that was planned, and this was reflected in the inefficiencies in the code.
[22:36] Kev: Servers could barely hold 1000 users for these reasons (among others)
[22:37] Kev: As code was rewritten several times, ircu has become far more efficient, and we now routinely have servers with 10000 or more clients.
[22:37] Kev: this has culminated in the release of ircu2.10.11, which is now running on all Undernet servers.
[22:38] Kev: this version contains many, many hours of work by myself, bleep, isomer, gte, and many other coders.
[22:39] Kev: the entire network core has been rewritten to enable the server to take advantage of features available on certain operating systems, such as FreeBSD.
[22:39] Kev: (for the technically minded, ircu can utilize kqueue() on FreeBSD and /dev/poll on Solaris)
[22:40] Kev: our future plans include another rewrite of the networking core--we will make the core into a separate library that anyone may use, and will be able to utilize other operating system features
[22:41] Kev: this is merely the tip of the ice berg. u2.10.12 will also hopefully include support for IPv6, and will likely also include the beginnings of support for the complete integration of the channel service into ircu.
[22:42] Kev: In revisions of ircu beyond u2.10.12, we hope to circumvent the scalability problems by again reformulating the protocol.
[22:43] Kev: in the process, we may be able to reduce the bandwidth requirements to the point where smaller ISPs may again link IRC servers.
[22:43] Kev: OK, I guess it's time to open it up for questions...
[22:43] magic: "Programmers are busy people and this is a voluntary job. Why are you doing this and how do you manage to equilibrate your real life stuff with this ?"
[22:44] Kev: that is indeed a very difficult question. u2.10.11 contained several hundred hours of work by me, and yet it took, oh, 2 or 3 years to be readied for release.
[22:44] nighty: who said we all manage to equilibrate it ? ;P
[22:44] magic: What is RFC 1459
[22:45] Kev: Often, I work in short spurts, with huge times in between, where I deal with real-life.
[22:46] Kev: RFC 1459 is a document released through the Internet Engineering Task Force, the standards body for the Undernet. It defined an "experimental" protocol, called Internet Relay Chat.
[22:46] Pyber: You can read the mentioned RFC at http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/cgi-bin/rfc/rfc1459.html
[22:46] magic: Who made the first IRC (I mean here the code for user and for server too)?
[22:47] bleep: Darren Reed was one of the first authors
[22:47] Pyber: A minor correct, the IETF (Internet Engineering Task Force) is the standards body for the Internet, not tthe Undernet. :)
[22:47] Kev: the earliest copyrights in the code are for Jarkko Oikarinen, in 1990
[22:47] Kev: Undernet did interview him sometime within the past couple of years, if memory serves.
[22:48] magic: u say that if the bandwith requirements will be lowered other isps can link to undernet....what kind of bandwith would we be talking about then
[22:48] Run: Kev: What changes have been made to the server-server protocol after my resignation?
[22:48] Simba--: https://undernet.org/docs/interview-with-jarkko-oikarinen (Interview with Jarkko Oikarinen)
[22:49] Kev: well, the plan is to move a lot of the global state out of the IRC protocol in some fashion. We haven't completely fleshed out the idea yet--the project is still several years off. That should reduce the bandwidth to little more than the actual bandwidth required for chat.
[22:49] Kev: Run: I think mostly some minor additions, such as ACCOUNT, and extended numerics.
[22:50] Kev: the protocol remains largely unchanged since your protocol changes.
[22:50] bleep: Another change has been full implementation of P10 including tokenization
[22:50] Kev: ah yes, I had forgotten that occurred after Run's resignation.
[22:51] magic: Why were the Undernet services turned into OpenSource software ? What advantages/disadvantages did this bring to the Undernet ?
[22:51] Kev: previously, the services were the proprietary creations of some of our coders.
[22:51] Run: Ok - but those are future plans. That is good, because almost all work I've been done in those 7 years was preparation to allow to make the server-server protocol scalable in the end. Think of a pure channel-based (EVERY msg has a scalable target) network.
[22:51] Kev: often, Undernet coders would be allowed to work on these services
[22:52] Run: I am looking forwards to a chat network that is truely scalable.
[22:52] Kev: however, the less trusted coders were unable to contribute, as they were with ircu.
[22:52] Kev: making the services open source allows those coders to contribute, hopefully increasing the quality of the code and the service it provides.
[22:53] Kev: I believe this finishes the coder-com portion of the event. Thanks for your attention :)
[22:53] Run: Correction: I designed the P10 protocol, and tokenisation was part of it. See http://www.xs4all.nl/~carlo17/irc/P10.html
[22:53] Kev: Run: yes, but tokenization could not be fully deployed until all servers could comprehend it.
[22:54] magic: Thanks kev for the coder-com information, lets move on to the channel service :)
[22:54] X: Ok.. is it time to talk about me yet? ;)
[22:54] c00kies: X, yes it's time for us to talk about you :P
[22:55] c00kies: Let me say, first, that I wasn't around at the beginning of CS, so I only have the information I was able to get from some of the archives..........
[22:55] c00kies: This is email that was sent, by Super, when he proposed channel registrations:
[22:55] c00kies: Date: Thu Feb 02 1995 - 17:27:07 CET
[22:55] c00kies: From: Super
[22:55] c00kies: I know that this topic was brought up when this idea was first thrown
[22:55] c00kies: around. Here is what I would like to propose:
[22:56] c00kies: Have a registration of Channels for users with certain guidelines. I would
[22:56] c00kies: like to volunteer to do this.
[22:56] c00kies: Basically the user would have to fill in an application and mail it
[22:56] c00kies: to me (or whoever is in charge, we could create a mail alias
[22:56] c00kies: channel@undernet.org)
[22:56] c00kies: The reason for a form is to ensure that we have something in writing (sort
[22:56] c00kies: of like a log). When the form is submitted, it is reviewed to ensure
[22:56] c00kies: the proper information is included and the request is valid (that way if
[22:56] c00kies: someone wants the bot on a channel that is run by someone else for the purpose
[22:56] c00kies: them taking the channel over it can be avoided - This is just a little common
[22:56] c00kies: sense).
[22:56] c00kies: A listing of channels that are run by the service would be available via
[22:56] c00kies: ftp on ftp.undernet.org (if this is ok) along with the channel owners so
[22:56] c00kies: if someone wanted to know how to get on the list, they can be directed to
[22:56] c00kies: this list.
[22:57] c00kies: Anyways, this is a proposal for the guidelines to the service. Since Seks is
[22:57] c00kies: the one developing it, he really gets the final say in it but I thought
[22:57] c00kies: I would throw it by all of you to see what you think. If you want me to
[22:57] c00kies: run the service, I will clean the above up a bit and make it the guidelines
[22:57] c00kies: to the service (open to suggestions of course).
[22:57] c00kies: --Super
[22:57] c00kies: Here is a bit of the history, from the early years:
[22:57] c00kies: February - 1995, X made its debut. (SeKs was its coder) It was hosted by Montreal.qu.ca. The Admins were Radium & SeKs.
[22:57] c00kies: May - 1995, X moved to Davis.ca.us after Montreal* briefly shut down.
[22:58] c00kies: June - 1995, #cservice set up by Footprint
[22:58] c00kies: (The first leaders were: Coordinator, Super; Admin, Striker; Non-Active Admin, Radium.)
[22:58] c00kies: July - 1995, W makes its debut, hosted by Rochester.ny.us - Admin: Ausum.
[22:58] c00kies: The 1995 Admins were: Super, Striker, Radium, FootPrint, Cowboy, Kev (who was also a coder), Chaos (another coder), Merrii, Morrissey, Derrick, Jase, Jini and Teal.
[22:59] c00kies: February - 1996, X moves from Davis to Vancouver.bc.ca - Admin: Footprint, W moves from Rochester to okc.ok.us - Admins: Wildthang, SeKs.
[22:59] c00kies: July - 1996, Change of Coordinator, Super retires / Merrii takes the job.
[22:59] c00kies: Now, I will turn it over to Merrii, who will talk about her time as CS Coordinator.....
[23:01] c00kies: ok one sec, I will give a bit more history
[23:01] c00kies: merrii isn't here, so I will give more history
[23:01] c00kies: October - 1996, Web Registrations start with 1 hour warning. We improvise methods to handle it. X gets lost. Its account is removed from Vancouver, in error, and the machine disassembled.
[23:01] c00kies: November - 1996, X's database is merged with W at okc. Passwords are made mandatory.
[23:02] c00kies: Dec. 8, 1996, A day that will live in infamy! X returns to Vancouver and joins all its channels. W does not. Pandemonium reigns in #cservice helping users get W back in their channels.
[23:02] c00kies: New Admins for 1996 were: AnElf, Signe, Claudia, BitBT, Crip, MatthewA, DinTx, Nudedude, TerraByte, Manning, Pucker, Rusteaux and BobsKC all came on board as Admins.
[23:02] c00kies: April - 1997, Change of Coordinator - Merrii retires / DinTx takes the job.
[23:02] c00kies: I'll turn it over to
[23:02] c00kies: DinTx now
[23:03] DinTn: Hi again
[23:03] DinTn: As you can see I kind of moved :)
[23:03] DinTn: When I took on Cservice back in 1997 I was sure that I would be the shortest lived coordinator ever
[23:04] DinTn: That was the day that the results of a vote to disband Cservice were released
[23:04] DinTn: We had to wait all day to hear our fate
[23:04] DinTn: Luckily the powers that be recognized that we were good for the net :)
[23:05] DinTn: There was a time when there was a lot of friction between the Oper community and Cservice
[23:06] DinTn: We worked very hard during the 3 years I handled CService to fix that and I think we did a good job of it.
[23:06] DinTn: Another complaint was the helpers in CService spoke only English
[23:06] DinTn: I pushed very hard to get helpers who could speak other languages
[23:07] DinTn: We now have many languages represented on CService to help the users
[23:07] DinTn: We had a few things happen while I was Coordinator. I wonder how many users remember Halloween of 1997
[23:08] DinTn: that was the year X and W came in disguise. Evil-X and Evil-W.
[23:08] DinTn: We learned then that it was not wise to nick change the bots nicks
[23:09] DinTn: #Cservice was a mess as well as a few other help channels
[23:09] DinTn: People ask why we don't do it again?? Once was enough :)
[23:10] DinTn: By the beginning of the year of 2000 I was starting to burn out
[23:10] DinTn: It was time to step down
[23:11] DinTn: I will say I am so proud to have worked with so many terrific people. The folks who volunteer in CService are some of the best :))
[23:11] DinTn: Thanks for letting me be here :)
[23:12] c00kies: ok, now DrCkTail will finish up the CService portion......
[23:12] merrii: oh I do, I do
[23:12] c00kies: ohhh go ahead merrii
[23:13] merrii: *softlaugh* Di, did you get it all covered while I was fighting with my ISP?
[23:13] DinTn: Merrii I could never cover for you :)
[23:13] merrii: oh, that's true, you'd need a tent *wink*
[23:13] c00kies: /me magic doc will finish up for usApril - 1997, Change of Coordinator - Merrii retires / DinTx takes the job.
[23:14] c00kies: sorry about that
[23:14] c00kies: hehe
[23:14] merrii: c00kies, that's not quite how it happened, but close:)
[23:14] merrii: I was so lucky to be an operator here in 95
[23:15] merrii: and when X came into being.. I jumped on the bandwagon.. I had so many channels that as an op, were fought over
[23:15] merrii: it took up so much of our time and energy..
[23:15] merrii: I started trying to help as much as I could w/o access to X and then was honored when footprint and striker and Super and everyone involved allowed me to be a part of it
[23:16] merrii: The growth and changes in X, then W were phenomonal.. and undernet grew by leaps and bounds because we were the *friendly* network
[23:16] merrii: anyone remember when X walloped for being kicked?
[23:17] merrii: what a mess, but they came up with improvements and made life easier for all the users and the opers
[23:18] merrii: then Cservice took off, I became Coordinator, then AnElf joined me for a bit.. but lives took over and I had to resign because I was doing a lousy job.. fortunately, Di had learned and helped so much that I asked that she be made Coordinator
[23:18] merrii: I've always been glad she took it over and that so many gave so much of their time to help the other users on the net
[23:19] merrii: X and W were controversial for a time.. but I only saw them as lifesavers
[23:19] merrii: my thanks to all those who contributed to CService and it was a wild but very interesting time in my life
[23:19] merrii: ok, I'm done
[23:19] c00kies: thanks merrii :o)
[23:20] c00kies: go for it :o)
[23:22] Enigmaa--: /me nods
[23:22] DinTn: The one and only DrCkTaiL :)
[23:24] DrCkTaiL: Since April of 2000, when the new coordinators were appointed, the history of Cservice has been all about Cmaster, so forgive me if I dwell on it. The origin of Cmaster was a meeting of three simple events, the desire to hide non-client servers effectively, the plan to implement a new authentication method for Cservice using SQL, and the introduction of the GNUworld development environment.
[23:26] DrCkTaiL: Undernet coders were discussing their plan for having services integrated with IRCU, and Cservice had the specification and alpha platform to illustrate how user authentication would work and integrate with channel service requirements. In January of 2000, the first Cmaster specification was written to address these requirements by Cservice group managers.
[23:27] DrCkTaiL: A mail list and channel were set up for Cservice designers to interface with coders and the fateful, as we will see, one-year quest to deploy Cmaster was on. Thousands of man hours were allocated to the task of replacing an outdated Channel service program set based on per-channel userhost authentication and take the first step in the process we call CS-Merge.
[23:27] DrCkTaiL: From the current administration's outset in April of 2000, until February 5, 2001, when the services machines were pulled offline permanently in the wake of the massive attack on Undernet assets, only a couple of significant events are worth mentioning.
[23:28] DrCkTaiL: In May of 2001, discussion began about the problems caused by a proliferation of bot lending services on the network. In a most liberal interpretation of the original Cservice guidelines, essentially allowing Cservice to act arbitrarily in the interest of the network, we announced a no-registration policy for bot lending channels.
[23:28] DrCkTaiL: Previously, this clause was only invoked to address individual circumstances, whereas the no-bot-channel decision addressed a network-wide issue.
[23:29] DrCkTaiL: The only other significant event of this period was the permission of registration of channels whose names contained high ASCII characters directly on the Cservice webpage, instead of having a mail list to review them. This event quietly expanded our base of cultural and linguistic accommodations to clients on a truly worldwide network.
[23:30] DrCkTaiL: We all remember too well the events of late 2001. When the services machines were pulled to avoid further attacks, Cservice was faced with finishing and deploying Cmaster before they could be restored to the network. We were already a year into the development but were suddenly faced with actually performing immediately.
[23:30] DrCkTaiL: Dedicated netizens, led by Gator, donated the plant and for a rigorous testnet and Cservice personnel en masse began to run it through the mill. The testnet was introduced only 15 days after services were lost. The next five weeks witnessed a frenzied effort on the part of many volunteers testing, correcting, enhancing and documenting.
[23:31] DrCkTaiL: We knew we were almost ready with the publication of the first official commands document published by ace documenter Ace on February 25. On March 3, 2001 Cmaster went live on Undernet.
[23:31] DrCkTaiL: The work was almost done. We had an automated procedure for managers to reclaim previously registered channel with no specific complications, and restored services to 12,000 established channels fairly quickly. There's not much of a story here, everything went so smoothly.
[23:31] DrCkTaiL: The massive effort to restore services under the new system has to be the most monumental accomplishment of Channel Service, and probably of any similar volunteer organization, in the history of IRC. The story of Cmaster and it's implementation on Undernet is largely untold, but the people who made it possible deserve your gratitude.
[23:32] DrCkTaiL: I estimated the entire project, given the prior delivery of GNUworld, consumed approximately 18,000 volunteer man hours, roughly $120,000 at minimum wage :)
[23:32] DrCkTaiL: Cservice from that point forward experienced a period of quiet satisfaction. Management tools previously requiring drudging human attention were automated. Users were assisted with a previously unknown success and efficiency. An intact active coding team continued to develop tools to make the job easier, and features to make the users' experience more enjoyable.
[23:32] DrCkTaiL: The new Cservice web page, once published, was the finale to the complete Cmaster deployment. It's complexity required many months of additional coding by nighty, and is one of the most trafficked non-commercial database interface sites of it's kind.
[23:32] DrCkTaiL: Recent releases of IRCU have been a harbinger of the inevitable, the plan to eventually merge all services into a single operating platform with the network software. Channel mode +r and user mode +x are examples of this trend, presenting a new challenge for Cservice, dealing with services not directly related to channel registration.
[23:33] DrCkTaiL: I think all involved can smile and say they were part of a phenomenon during the entire history of Undernet Channel Services. A testament to our most unique organization is the fact that the original Cservice Guidelines document, much like the US Constitution, contained a vision of what the founders wanted to accomplish that has remained intact and unedited to this day.
[23:33] DrCkTaiL: To this legacy and insight we owe our experience, dedication, success and our promise for the future. Thank you, and enjoy the next 10 :)
[23:34] magic: Thank you c00kies, merrii, DinTn and all channel service helpers :)
[23:34] magic: and ofcourse DrCkTaiL (sorry forgot you) ;P
[23:34] magic: We will now once again take questions from you regarding the channel service
[23:35] magic: please /msg #askme and we will select some quiestions to ask.
[23:35] magic: Do you have any plans to implement a nick-registration service ?
[23:36] DinTn: No there will be no nick registration on Undernet. We have gotten much to big and it would create too much disruption
[23:37] magic: Has anyone ever told each and every one of you how totally WONDERFUL you are and how much we appreciate your time and efforts? Be assured that we DO!!!
[23:37] magic: wouldnt it be easy to take W back in service for small channels who have problems getting X?
[23:38] c00kies: Has anyone ever told each and every one of you how totally WONDERFUL you are and how much we appreciate your time and efforts? Be assured that we DO!!! thanks so much, Tricia, we have lots of wonderful users and I do think that the majority of them so appreciate what CService does :o)
[23:39] Gte-: visbokaal: The new Cmaster code is more efficient, so we don't need two bots any more. It wouldn't make it any easier if we have both bots again ;)
[23:40] magic: W will be back some day?
[23:41] W: I'm here for a few hours today, I've been on vacation for quite a while. You can catch me in #liveevents later to have a chat ;)
[23:41] c00kies: hehe
[23:41] magic: Will the cservice upgrade the site and will they add new commands to X???
[23:42] magic: Lets move on to the routing commitee :-)
[23:42] magic: Welcome Leland :-)
[23:42] Leland-: Good evening, afternoon, morning, etc. Everyone and a happy hello to the little green men watching us live from Beetlegeuse V.
[23:43] Leland-: Today we are going to learn about Cisco's Enhanced Interior Gateway Routing Protocol...
[23:43] Leland-: oops.. wrong speech.. try again...
[23:43] Leland-: The original routing committee was chartered back in 1994.
[23:43] Leland-: At that time server applications were performed by email and stored in a directory. One file per server.
[23:43] Leland-: Obviously this created a LOT of "paperwork" for the committee and its secretary at the time.
[23:43] Leland-: A first step to speeding this process was made in 1996 when Niels created a CGI (web) based application form.
[23:43] Leland-: This form, however, simply collected the information and provided an email to the routing committee which still had to be sorted, stored, and manually processed.
[23:44] Leland-: Shortly afterwards, the committee was split into two, one for Europe and one for North America.
[23:44] Leland-: The server application process was slow, arduous, and still manually processed. As a result by the end of 1996 there was a backlog of over 90 server applications.
[23:44] Leland-: Another contributing factor to this backlock was a server link review underway of all existing servers.
[23:44] Leland-: In early 1997, I took over as secretary of the north american routing committee, working closely with my european counterpart wuschel.
[23:44] Leland-: Wuschel eventually went off to deal with real life so I assumed the secretariat of the European committee as well. Ever since then, the two committees share one secretary.
[23:44] Leland-: This makes coordination simpler between the admins committee as well as the between the two r-coms.
[23:45] Leland-: Around the same time, some very comprehensive, and some would say "anal-retentive" operating procedures were put in place.
[23:45] Leland-: These procedures have changed little over the years, with only minor modifications. Additionally the r-com website was updated and a database was put in place.
[23:45] Leland-: This allowed a much faster processing time of server applications.
[23:45] Leland-: The current structure of the routing committees is two committees of five voting members each and a common secretary. The secretary has no voting power in the committee.
[23:45] Leland-: If the secretary is also an Undernet admin, then the secretary also systematically abstains from routing-related votes on the admins committee.
[23:46] Leland-: In 2001, however, I no longer had enough time to dedicate to the routing committee, so following my resignation after nearly 5 years tenure, Indian was elected to succeed me as secretary.
[23:46] Leland-: (Sadly he is not with us this evening).
[23:46] Leland-: For those wishing to link servers, please note that although there is some automation to the application process these days, there is still a small amount of manual intervention.
[23:46] Leland-: Thus, delays can occur if the secretary or the voting members are occupied with real-life situations. Please bear with these guys who do give their time for the routing committe whenever they can.
[23:46] Leland-: For more information on how the routing committee operates, as well as its published procedures, visit the routing-com website at http://routing-com.undernet.org/
[23:47] Leland-: All in all, I enjoyed my nearly 5 years involvement with routing-com and would happily do so again, if I had the time to dedicate to it.
[23:48] Leland-: Thank you all and enjoy a good evening.. and if you want to learn about EIGRP I'll be giving a class in 2 weeks... but sign up fast, places are short ;)
[23:49] ripper_: extended internet gateway routing protocol?
[23:49] magic: Thank you very much Leland, lets move on to the undernet user commitee :-)
[23:53] magic: welcome cynthia :)
[23:53] cynnie: Hi Folks :)
[23:53] cynnie: I hope everyone is enjoying the event, so many have worked so hard to do this :)
[23:54] cynnie: dammit I can't
[23:54] Pyber: Greetings everybody. I've been invited here to chat with everybody a little about the history of the Undernet User's Committee
[23:54] Pyber: (UUC) and some of the projects that spawned from it. Before I begin, I'd like to give everybody a brief introduction into who I am.
[23:55] Pyber: My nick is Pyber, and I've been on the Undernet longer than I can remember (I believe I first joined the network as a user sometime
[23:55] Pyber: in late '93). During my tenure here I've been a user, an Operator (anybody remember Vancouver.BC.CA.Undernet.org?) and an Admin. I
[23:55] Pyber: was also the second co-ordinator of the UUC, taking over the reigns from the founding co-ordinator, Isotope at the end of 1994.
[23:55] Pyber: It's because of this moment of insanity that I'm typing to you all now. :)
[23:55] Pyber: Enough of introductions, and now onto the history part. The Undernet User's Committee was originally formed sometime in late-1994 in
[23:55] Pyber: response to the growning popularity of the Undernet. As more and more people began to come onto the network, there were inevitably
[23:55] Pyber: growing pains, some in the form of tech support questions (How do I get a list of channels, what's a good client, how do I compile a
[23:55] Pyber: client?), some in the form of oper-user disputes (so and so killed me, alot), and even more in the form of users wanting to suggest
[23:55] Pyber: improvements to the network, and offer some direction in how the network should grow and develop. The UUC would report to the
[23:55] Pyber: 'wastelanders' (As the mostly oper/admin list was known as the time) with reports of suggestion, disputes, etc. And so work began.
[23:56] Pyber: The first order of business was to forum a committee with a co-ordinator to lead the efforts. I can't remember the exact number we
[23:56] Pyber: had, but for some reason 15 springs to mind. The second order of business was to develop up some guidelines. After several drafts,
[23:56] Pyber: a finalized version was approved and submitted to record. If anybody is interested, the finalized UserCom guidelines, circa
[23:56] Pyber: 1994-1995 can be read from the Undernet's FTP site at ftp://ftp.undernet.org/irc/undernet/UserCom-guidelines . The most interesting
[23:56] Pyber: point in the guidelines was that we wouldn't get involved in channel disputes. This changed, but more on that later. :)
[23:56] Pyber: After all the administrative details were taken care of, we formed the usercom channel. In this channel users could come and get
[23:56] Pyber: #help on all aspects of the Undernet, most notably technical support on client issues. We also parked a bot on the channel called
[23:57] Pyber: Pericles, named after the Greek stateman who allowed democracy and culture to flourish in ancient Athens. This bot was slowly
[23:57] Pyber: programmed to offer help on most of the basic problems that users were faced with on the Undernet.
[23:57] Pyber: As a result of the channel, and the mailing list, we began to see a pattern of questions emerge, from which there were two common
[23:57] Pyber: threads. The first was that the most popular client of the day, the Unix ircII text-based client was difficult at best to use, and
[23:57] Pyber: the second was that 'war' scripts were causing havoc on the IRC. (Back then, DDoS attacks weren't even an inkling yet, usually the
[23:57] Pyber: worst you would suffer was being 'flashed' which resulted in scrambled characters on your screen that was fairly trivial to
[23:57] Pyber: reverse). From these findings sprung one of the first sub-committees of the UUC, the Undernet Scripting Committee (USC), started by
[23:57] Pyber: Isoptope and ultimately headed by a UUC committee member Chaos. From the USC sprung it's one and only project, the Undernet Users
[23:57] Pyber: Script (UUS).
[23:58] Pyber: The goal of the UUS was simple. To create an ircII script that was cross-compatible with most of the ircII clients (there were a
[23:58] Pyber: few versions of the pure ircII client out there, each with their own quirks, as well as the EPIC branch, and later BitchX. The
[23:59] Pyber: script would provide all of the better features of most of the ircII scripts out there like Phoenix like easy multi-'windowed'
[23:59] Pyber: interface, quick channel switching, flood protection, etc, without providing any of the 'war' features. The script also had one
[23:59] Pyber: other goal, utilize the Undernet specific features of the server (like silence) while doing it to make the users stay more
[23:59] Pyber: enjoyable. With the ability to install single-user or site wide for shell providers, the UUS soon became one of the most popular
[23:59] Pyber: scripts seen on the Undernet.
[23:59] Pyber: The second 'subcommittee' to be formed by the UUC started to come about when Ensor forwarded an email to the UUC mailing list in
[00:00] Pyber: Thursday, Feb 2nd, 1995. The email was a snippet from the 'wastelanders' list, where they were discussing the growing trend of
[00:00] Pyber: channel ownership disputes, and how they could be combatted. This lead to people pointing out that involvement in channel issues
[00:00] Pyber: was against the guidelines, which in turn lead to a proposed amendment to the UUC guidelines allowing the UUC to get involved in
[00:00] Pyber: channel registration on the Undernet. This also generated alot of discussion with people not seeing a need for a channel
[00:00] Pyber: registration service, others thinking that people wouldn't accept an all-controlling bot, and still more who thought that control of
[00:00] Pyber: said bot would rest with the opers. The discussion surrounding it makes for an interesting read if you are interested in the
[00:01] Pyber: history. The discussion can be found in the 9502 archives of the usercom mailing list, available on the Undernet FTP site.
[00:01] Pyber: Then on Sunday, Feb 5th, 1995, Brian_C posted the suggestion that "I think perhaps we should spawn a sub-committee that would deal
[00:01] Pyber: solely with the problems of channel ops and users". Monday, Feb 6th, Super posted "I would like to volunteer to head up the
[00:02] Pyber: committee (wow that sounds formal) that adminstrates the new Channel service". Roughly 5 hours later I posted the official
[00:02] Pyber: proposal, with Super at the helm, and away it went. Within a few days, Super had some guidelines whipped up, and by the middle to
[00:02] Pyber: end of february, the channel registrations started to appear on the usercom mailing list via the cservice@alias.undernet.org email
[00:02] Pyber: alias that was setup. Around Feb 20th - 22nd, the first incarnation of the CService bot came online. Feb 23rd, 1995, the #usercom
[00:02] Pyber: channel was registered with the channel serivce.
[00:03] Pyber: March 9th, 1995, with all the emails being generated by the channel service in discussions, registrations and disputes, Super has
[00:03] Pyber: Flux create the cservice@undernet.org mailing list, and it all moved over there, freeing up the user-com mailing list for other fun
[00:03] Pyber: things like scripting, discussions on nick registrations, voting, and general chaos. :) Just to continue with the cservice thread a
[00:03] Pyber: second, in June of 1995, X had a total of 64 channels registered, with a theoretical limit of 300 - 400 channels, and discussion was
[00:03] Pyber: started on what to do if it reached that limit (W being the one that won out). Around the middle of July, 1995 I think it was,
[00:03] Pyber: CService officially moved from being a UserCom SubCommittee to reporting directly to the admins, morphing into the service that you
[00:04] Pyber: have come to know and love today.
[00:04] Pyber: After all of the CService mails moved away from the usercom mailing list, discussions continued on some of the issues close to
[00:04] Pyber: UserCom's mandate. Work was ongoing with the UUS, a form of Nick registration was repeatedly debated, and repeatedly defeated.
[00:04] Pyber: Flame wars erupted, and were put out. One thing remained constant though, the people involved were trying to make the Undernet a
[00:04] Pyber: better place for all users, the exact reason that the UUC/UUG was created. Some of the other things undertaken by the UUC included
[00:05] Pyber: a channel information bot, a database form of X with no ability to op, but something that opers could reference in a dispute, a
[00:05] Pyber: great debate on registering #*sex* channels, a users help mailing list, a registry for all the games availble on the Undernet
[00:05] Pyber: (Jeopardy, Boggle, Jargon), and actually helped in the removal of an Oper for abuse.
[00:05] Pyber: Unfortunately, at the end of 1995, UserCom mostly tapered off, the UUS was mostly complete, CService was going full steam ahead, and
[00:05] Pyber: many of the core members of the UUC slowly drifted away, or were burnt out. I tendered my resignation as UUC co-ord at the
[00:06] Pyber: beginning of 1996. If the archives records are complete, then the next post was in August of 1996, with somebdoy asking if the list
[00:06] Pyber: was still alive. :) I am unsure when it was fully resurrected in it's current form, but I am glad to see it return.
[00:06] Pyber: Just for posterity, the following is a list of all the members of the UserCom core Committee, circa 1994 to 1996 :
[00:06] Pyber: Isotope, Pyber, n22, Super, Striker, Lister, Hermit, SunSword, OxOwl, Elfi, FootPrint, Chaos, SigmaRho, Donster, OffSpring, Fozzy,
[00:06] Pyber: Mummer, Mysta, and Anthony.
[00:07] Pyber: If I have missed anybody, I sincerely apologize.
[00:07] Pyber: I would just like to express my thanks to all of those involved in UserCom during that period, and my thanks to those people who
[00:07] Pyber: continue in UserCom today. Also my thanks to all of you for sitting through this meandering through the history of the Undernet
[00:07] Pyber: Users Committee. :)
[00:08] Pyber: I now sign off with the signature I used at the end of all my usercom emails...
[00:08] Pyber: Aluve, Pyber...
[00:08] Cyn: well the history up to the time when Ferrago took over as co-ordinator :)
[00:09] Cyn: As Pyber referrenced to the Usercommitte became somewhat idle
[00:09] Cyn: Ferrgao then went to Pyber and asked if he could take it over and he did and merged Usercom with Docu-com and PR-com
[00:10] Cyn: He recruitered volunteers and soon began doing more things than pr-coms charter, so he rejuvenated user-com and doco-com too. By consolidating all the committees into one User Committee it enabled the group to get involved in a wider variety of things. Such as the newsletter, management of the website, documentation writing and live events like this one.
[00:10] Cyn: Ferrago soon after had to move on irl tasks and then Zerbey became co-ordinator
[00:10] Cyn: then my time came
[00:11] Cyn: I became Usercom Co-ordinator in 1998 (I think). When I eased into this role Usercom had #userguide, #class, Promotions, UnderCurrents , Documents and webmasters.
[00:11] Cyn: Since that time we have grown and have added SRT which is a project that answers the mail sent in by the user’s or directs the email to the proper undernet list to be answered.
[00:11] Cyn: UUS has been reborn and a beta version is days away from being released on our website.
[00:12] Cyn: as Pyber referred to the UUS script earlier and spent some time talking about it we have the current Project Admin for UUS here to discuss this with you in a couple mins
[00:12] Cyn: Usercom is in the process of getting all the pages translated into various languages so all the user’s can benefit from the help and information available without having to worry about language barriers.
[00:12] Cyn: #userguide project members are actively involved in training and writing help topics for their portion of the webpage. The newest idea being looked into is adding crosswords, wordsearches etc to the page.
[00:12] Cyn: UnderCurrents, Undernet’s newsletter, has had a face lift now allowing user’s to submit articles directly through the website. We are always looking for articles from user’s so don’t be shy and write in !
[00:12] Cyn: #class which runs every Friday evening at 00:30 GMT has two classes running presently and are in the process of updating another and also coming up with ideas to start another new class. There is a bot in #class that currently runs two classes in various languages 24/7.
[00:13] Cyn: Documents project is actively updating all the documents on the page and translating them into various languages.
[00:13] Cyn: you will be able to find a transcript of this event there in a couple days along with BrightAye's new History document
[00:13] Cyn: Over the past couple years Webmasters has changed the look of www.undernet.org . The logo changed as the pages changed during a contest put out to the user’s to submit their idea of a logo for Undernet, thanks go out to Wolfess71 for the winning entry. Great features for the user’s such as webchat ability and a forum for user’s to write in their thoughts and questions.
[00:13] Cyn: The Promotions team is always looking for new ideas for live events and I know for sure they have a very exciting one coming up shortly, stay tuned !
[00:14] Cyn: Usercom is thinking of having monthly meetings with user’s to get you together with various committee people and listen to your ideas and concerns. As this idea progresses into a stable structure we will keep you informed !
[00:14] Cyn: Usercom’s purpose is to assist the user’s on Undernet in the best way possible. We listen to the idea’s you all write in with and see how we can implement them.
[00:14] Cyn: We have run holiday mazes in conjuction with the other committee’s on Undernet to try and help user’s have fun, so keep the ideas coming !!!
[00:14] Cyn: To wrap this up, Usercom is always looking for people that want to be active and are ready to volunteer their time to help the user’s. If you don’t have have the time to be actively involved, don’t be shy and do send in your ideas and thoughts !!
[00:15] Cyn: daaave can you talk briefly about the script
[00:16] daaave: The current incarnation of UUS is different from its history; the previous version was written for the UNIX client ircII, while the new version will be for mIRC.
[00:16] daaave: It is currently under development, but we expect an initial beta to be ready sometime this week.
[00:17] daaave: The main features of the new UUS are flood protection, integration with Undernet's channel service, and various other features to make Undernet usage easier.
[00:18] daaave: After its initial release, the script will be released as an open source project, much like the Undernet IRCD software itself.
[00:20] Cyn: I would like to thank all the user's for helping make Undernet a great place
[00:20] Cyn: I would like to thank all the past and current admins for allowing Undernet to live on :)
[00:20] Cyn: now back to magic :)
[00:21] magic: Well thats the end of this 10 year birthday :o)
[00:21] Pyber: Ok, now I was promised beer? Oh, is this thing still on?
[00:21] magic: we hope you all enjoyed the 3h 20min long event, and grab some cake on yoru way out :)
[00:21] Cyn: the beer is almost gone Pyber, where you been?
[00:21] nighty: reserve your night for 20th anniversary
[00:22] daaave: does the cake have beer in it?
[00:22] magic: see you all in a few years :)
[00:22] Cyn: I would also like to mention the huge load of other people that work behind the scenes to help everyone
[00:22] LeRebel: I'm ready nighty ;)
[00:23] nighty: bah
[00:23] Cyn: so many volunteer so much of their time and we all appreciate that :)
[00:23] Cyn: magic, more questions now?
[00:23] magic: If we would name all of you, the event will take a few extra hours :)
[00:23] DinTn: Why are you talking in my status window?
[00:23] magic: (Fleisch): Who/what are the wastelanders?
[00:23] Pyber: Di - That's a very good question, and in involved ducks, very small rocks, an a spanish inquisition that nobody expects.
[00:24] Pyber: The 'wastelanders' were the name given to the original admins/operators of the network. It was named that after the channel and mailing list they frequented. :)
[00:25] magic: Flimflam: we will not tell you where services are hosted :-)
[00:25] magic: that remains a secret for obvious reasons ;o)
[00:26] magic: (Mister_X): are you going to post the log for the live event on the Undernet site?
[00:26] magic: yes we will
[00:27] magic: it should be published sometime tomorrow or early next week :)
[00:27] Cyn: yes as I said earlier the log of this and BrightAye's updated History document will be posted
[00:27] magic: (xplora): is it finished yet? :P
[00:27] magic: yes xplora you can goto bed now ;)
[00:28] magic: (visbokaal): Where's the cake ?
[00:28] Cyn: I also want to thank everyone that showed up today and all the hard work finding out about the history of before some of us began on Undernet
[00:28] magic: it is in #liveevents
[00:28] magic: the channel is now open to join again